Marvellous work. So is this how apple will kill the mac OS?
Accent_Sweden ·
So you are saying its JTBD is not as a giant iPhone? Now that should confuse some folks. :) Great analysis and great presentation.
Luis Alejandro Masanti ·
Horace, you surpass yourself! (I think it has something to do with your AirShow.)
Just the ‘concept’ is right (as usual in you) but the presentation make it really enjoyable to see.
And thanks for the last note: “No device…”
I suffered during the presentation with the glass-crashing noises…
Bill Esbenshade ·
Horace - what's it like to hold iPad Pro and read with it that way? This is my only concern re purchase.
Sacto_Joe ·
This should go viral, stat. It's that good. Talk it up, folks.
Marcosardi ·
There is one use case the iPad Pro doesn't cover: a lot of us are using a laptop as a portable desktop and are plunging it to a screen/keyboard/mouse when in the office. I get the keyboard and mouse part, but what about the external larger screen? Will the gorgeous screen of the iPad Pro make for it?
dr.no ·
Airplay mirroring or HDMI Lightning adpator
then you can go buy 120" 4K TV and
go brag to the neighbors.
neutrino23 ·
I just had a chance to try one with a keyboard and pencil tonight. The keyboard is serviceable but the pencil takes your breath away. With it I can print text almost as finely as I would with a 0.4mm lead pencil. Drawing or annotating with any other iPad is like writing with a marker on a white board. The new Pencil is exquisitely precise.
I'm not an artist, for me this is great because I need to annotate pictures of samples or take notes while acquiring data in the lab.
I heard that the high end configurations sold out first. This is what I'll get, 128GB with LTE radio. The Pencil is back ordered several weeks.
hannahjs ·
I don't know which I like better, your sense of humour, your daring, or your intellect. Perhaps, like the daiquiri, it's all in the blend.
Adams Immersive ·
I'm pretty sure that for me, the lack of a physical keyboard (size, weight, awkward screen angle) is a key iPad benefit!
demodave ·
Fun! Very enjoyable to watch. I would still miss my mouse too much to give up the "laptop", but I might still yet be trainable!
altuzar ·
I think that the iPad Pro is just a big iPad, but love the video (and the rest of the site, your graphs are THE F****ING BEST).
Bdub ·
Excellent video, bravo.
Peter Payne ·
Great video. I love my iPad air so much when traveling, I am just not on board with the Pro, unfortunately. I wish Apple had added value by giving the pencil for free with the purchase, that would have changed the value proposition so much.
DalekVoid ·
What is the app he was using to demo the iPad pro?
Norton Chia ·
Almost perfect.
jhallsmith ·
Perspective
Marco ·
After less than 1 hour working on an iPad Pro laid flat on a desk your neck will hurt so much that you would need a neck massage ;-)
Also, from your video you can easily see that by using it like that it continues to swing horizontally on the surface of the desk, so at least you would need to attach 4 antislip pads or antislip tape on the back cover...
Bill Maslen ·
Hm. I think the iPad Pro is the clearest indication yet that the stylistic convergence of MacOS and iOS is all about Apple migrating to dual OSes on a single platform. I think "Pro" indicates that future iterations will support iOS in tablet mode and MacOS in desktop mode – Apple will undoubtedly come up with a more practical keyboard in the not-too-distant future, because the Smart Keyboard is about as far from Jony Ive's style as you could possibly get. I have absolutely no doubt that behind the scenes in Applesville there are already iPad Pros running both MacOS and iOS, interchangeably. And that's why Tim Cook can afford to be so dismissive of Microsoft's latest Surface and other devices: while Windows continues to be a confusing kludge, the next generation of iPad Pros will draw a clear distinction between one mode and the other. Horace's video clearly shows that such a distinction needs to be drawn: as it stands, the iPad Pro is slightly awkward. But imagine a dual-OS version: it's the old "ugly duckling to swan" transformation.
So next year, or maybe the year after, I guarantee we'll be seeing an iPad Pro with an optional Force Touch keyboard, capable of switching from MacOS to iOS and back again as the user prefers (hence also the vastly improved "disk" controller). I suspect the storage will be ramped up (256+ GB) and the meaning of the "Pro" moniker will become crystal clear. Now that would be mind-bogglingly cool. And much more practical.
JohnDoey ·
Most people don’t have any use for the pencil. It is the very definition of an accessory. If you actually have a use for the pencil, then you know that it is cheaper and higher-quality than competing solutions.
OGenius ·
Horace, we loved the video! We tried to translate it in French so that others can enjoy it too. A simple question: Did you really buy an iPad Pro?! http://macaficionados.com/2015/11/12/ipad-pro-une-nouvelle-categorie-dordinateurs-de-bureau-63769/
guarantee ·
I guarantee we won't see that.
Space Gorilla ·
You just need to angle it up (who remembers drafting tables). I've been using an iPad 2 in a ZAGGFolio keyboard case like this since 2011, it has replaced my MacBook Pro. The combination of touching the screen and using the hardware keyboard is very comfortable. I find it much better than my mouse/keyboard combo on my iMac.
Marco ·
With a keyboard case it's a totally different story!
I was referring to the video, in which the keyboard cover is literally thrown away and the iPad Pro is just laid flat and controlled with touch/fingers only.
kyron ·
nope, not gonna happen. two completely different OSes on one device is far too much complication. an ugly kludge. instead, Apple will continue to improve iOS. the pro is capable of running desktop class software. it needs some refinement (better keyboard support) but that will come. also remember, iOS supports external monitors as seen in auto head units.
kyron ·
for dramatic effect. no office worker is going to actually work that way.
kyron ·
and an iPad is just a big iPhone, right?
same way a swimming pool is just a big bathtub...
kyron ·
iOS supports external displays, even with touch support. auto head units operate in this fashion (Pioneer AppRadio, etc). it's not hard to imagine this evolving.
kyron ·
not until people no longer need trucks and selling them trucks is no longer profitable.
Space Gorilla ·
What kyron said, it was for dramatic effect, nothing more. Although there are times when I do use my iPad 2 laid flat when collaborating with someone else, but that isn't the normal way I use it.
I think the point does need to be made about how comfortable it is to use a touchscreen with a hardware keyboard case. I see many comments about how using a touchscreen all day will be tiring on your hand or arm. I can say from years of experience that is not the case, I find it more comfortable than the keyboard/mouse on my iMac, and far more comfortable than my MacBook trackpad.
Marco ·
Well, I was not prepared for dramatic effect in a technical review.
berult ·
After one hour's pain-in-the-butt, mind-bending work, your neck muscles sweet-talk you into shifting your neural weight to lower-body cartilages for a change. It's somewhat peculiarly spelt 'get-the-f***-up-and-take-a-walk-or-something'. Toe be, or not toe be, ...kinda..."give it a Shakespearian rest, will ya...?"
Neck-of-the-woods' tap-on-the-wrist for some walk-in-the-park work-in-progress. Sorta.
One can reminisce with tear-jerking nostalgia upon those rows of monks bent, for hours on end, over precious manuscripts in some remote monastery. This meticulous brotherhood of shriveled annotators, scribes, and parch-mentors, died out as a species from atavistic neck distentions. This is a well-known/poorly-known/how-the-hell-would-I-know, albeit a deeply saddening part of one's neighborhood library's institutional history.
So, one should not even bend over backward to exercise on the hour. The sheer survival of one's own scribbling species demands that it lifts its sorry a** off its intellectual mooring. On the dot, it rings the 'ankle' metaphor, ...what far too many of us mortal conveniently mishear as the 'anchor' call-of-duty. berult.
godofbiscuits ·
Two different UXs, but the iOS underpinnings are a version of OS X minus the posix stuff and retooled to work as an "embedded" version (no virtual memory, using app files themselves as backing stores to a greater extent, etc).
And then there's watchOS and tvOS, both of which descent from iOS.
The lion's share of developer frameworks available in iOS are also available in tvOS.
And OS X and iOS share even more frameworks. Apple's been moving more and more towards making them identical on both platforms (e,g,, Metal, Core Image)
It's better to say that it's unlikely in the nearer term that Apple plans to merge UIKit (iOS user experience framework) with OS X's AppKit.
battiato1981 ·
As an artist who makes drawing the bedrock of all I do, I sighed a deep sigh every time Steve Jobs dissed the use of a stylus, even though I knew that his POV was as general user. It was obvious that Apple could do a kick-ass drawing tool if they decided to. With such a strong internal design culture, I'm kind of surprised that it took so long. Now the only (small) issue is that the pencil won't arrive until 3 weeks after the iPad. As suggested in your review, I expect to use this while sitting at my desks, as a drawing pad, and that it will to some extent supplant my paper pads and my Wacom tablet. A slightly inclined (drafting style) desktop will go nicely with this. I think the niche market for people like me is large, but not large enough to make the pencil standard with it. That said, if it wasn't for my specialized work, I would have no interest in a tablet this size.
Mordechai ·
It's really too big to be comfortable anywhere other than on a table. I'm looking forward to trying it out with the pencil - us mere mortals have to wait 2 weeks to get the pencil unlike you Horace. In the meantime, it makes a great TV to watch while having breakfast. Just finished watching episodes 8 and 9 of Dr. Who.
Walt French ·
Likewise, many will have use for the iPadPro only as an accessory to the Pencil. Horace is looking more to the future here; 99% of the existing iOS software is not at all attuned to the opportunities he sees. Illustrators, graphic artists & the like will be immediately (well, in 3 weeks when the Pencil starts shipping in volume) thrilled.
gerrymcgarry ·
The iPad Pro would need a pretty big blender.
gerrymcgarry ·
For the times they are a-changin'
Sporting my "Told you so" face ·
I hate having to wait for two weeks to get the pencil. Like what happened there?
Andrew ·
iOS has the posix stuff (except for the command shell and command line programs).
Shameer Mulji ·
Apple has pretty adamant about not merging iOS / OSX but I can see them adding a "desktop" features to iOS that may allow iOS apps to adapt between UI paradigms.
For example, when you attach the Smart Keyboard on an iPad Pro, the app(s) displays the UI optimized for KB / trackpad. When you detach the Smart Keyboard, the app displays the UI optimized for Touch
jfutral ·
Because before the computer everyone did their work on an easel?
Joe
jfutral ·
Yeah, I remember drafting tables. It wasn't about not looking down, it was about being able to comfortably drawing at 24"x36" (or larger), reaching the whole layout easily. Difficult to impossible (depending on drawing size) flat.
Joe
Space Gorilla ·
Yes, flat is terrible as a working surface. But angle everything up a bit and it is very comfortable, and more practical. I was in newspaper production when it was still cut and paste, we used drafting tables and light tables for hours on end. I've always wanted an iMac that was all touchscreen that I could angle down. I suppose the iPad Pro is a step in that direction.
Space Gorilla ·
I think the tossing of devices off screen with the fake glass breaking sound effect was a clue :)
Marco ·
You cannot compare this to pre-computer era. So if you are correct, why the screens of the first computers were not horizontal?...
jfutral ·
Right, but not because of neck strain, but because of arm reach.
Joe
Marco ·
OK, I guess time we'll tell.
I still believe - in case it was not clear - that you cannot really work on an iPad Pro like you'd work on a PC with a real keyboard (let's say on a laptop). I mean any kind of 'serious' work requiring you to spend the whole day at the PC, whether it's writing, coding, editing, creating and so on. No tablet, no matter what size it is, could ever replace a real PC/laptop.
jfutral ·
Why not? It is a longer history than computer history.
Actually, many screens were horizontal, placed under glass. It just wasn't an efficient use of desk space.
People still look down to get work done. This is not anything new.
Joe
Space Gorilla ·
I've found it's a bit of both, that extra bit of strain when you're working on a flat surface really gets to your neck and shoulders. But I imagine it depends on exactly what you're doing, positioning and such. On a drafting table I could use my elbows as swivels much better, which was better for reach, certainly.
Space Gorilla ·
Well, I've been doing this since 2011, doing real work on my iPad 2 in a keyboard case. It replaced my MacBook Pro. What is serious work anyway? It's different for every person. Sure there are some apps that are better suited to a traditional PC set up, but some apps are actually better on a touchscreen. Apps and workflows will evolve. One thing I can say for sure, I prefer the touchscreen/hardware keyboard, it feels smoother, more connected, easier.
Marco ·
You should review your history book, I'm afraid. Even amanuensis monks did not work on a horizontal surface.
Marco ·
Well, kudos to your skeleton then. If I worked like that for even one hour my neck and shoulders would start to hurt. According to ergonomics, that's not how you should stay in front of a screen.
Space Gorilla ·
You're making incorrect assumptions about my position when I'm working on my iPad. It sits on a desk, with the screen angled up. It's a lot like a laptop sitting on a desk, except I type on the hardware keyboard and instead of a mouse or trackpad I touch the screen to interact as needed. It is incredibly comfortable. But I can also sit on the couch or in a chair and work in the same fashion, also very comfortable. I'm not special in any way when it comes to my skeleton, I can assure you.
Marco ·
I am not making assumptions, sorry if I gave this impression. If you read my first comment, I was contesting the idea to work on an iPad Pro laid flat horizontally on the desk!
And in fact I even replied to you on the same topic yesterday. This was my reply: "With a keyboard case it's a totally different story! I was referring to the video, in which the keyboard cover is literally thrown away and the iPad Pro is just laid flat and controlled with touch/fingers only."
jfutral ·
So why aren't desks built with a natural incline?
Joe
Marco ·
They were! Not until long ago (historically speaking of course, let's say until WWII or slighly later), work desks were inclined. Even school desks were:
jfutral ·
Yet, not anymore. Why is that?
Joe
Space Gorilla ·
I agree, working flat would be a nightmare, for long periods. But I did previously explain that isn't how I work. You can do serious work on an iPad, no problem. I do sometimes detach the keyboard and lay both flat, in meetings. It's handy how you can separate the keyboard and screen and still type easily. But I wouldn't work flat for very long. You can also prop up the screen and sit back in your chair with the keyboard on your lap, if you're just writing and don't need to touch the screen much. One of the things I really enjoy is how flexible the iPad is with the keyboard case.
Marco ·
Because on certain things we are evolving, on others we are regressing. During the Boom years many things were changed in the name of modernity, not always with good results. This is particularly true in furniture design and architecture. Staying at a desk and watching all day long a totally horizontal surface, with your neck and head reclined, damages your neck/spine and is not an ergonimic posture. That is a medical fact.
Marco ·
I totally agree on that, all my comments were related to how working on an iPad Pro was presented in the above video.
Michael Diedrichs ·
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GVJpOmaDyU
Childermass ·
The nub of your ping-pong game with Space Gorilla is this word 'serious'. You are making assumptions about work. Almost no-one (on an actuarial basis) does 'serious' work on a computer. The number of coders and gamers and spread-sheet maves, who dominate these boards and others like them, are but a mote. Apple has always had the beam in mind. The 'rest-of-us' IS the market, and this iPad and others before them make more sense and are easier to use BECAUSE they are simpler, more intuitive and more fun. Hey, we may get neck-ache. So? No-one is going to make any money, from this day on, making machines for tech-nerds. Count the dollars.
You say you remarks were based on Horace's presentation. I'm not a buyer of that get-out. The new world does not give a rats-ass for conventional IT/HR/health-and-safety considerations.
As a completely un-needed extra: use a pillow. You sit on your sofa and get a bedroom pillow. Punch it around a little and lo! your iPad sits at exactly the right angle. Write books, design web-sites, read, listen; and all in your pyjamas.
Childermass ·
Bulls-eye. Thank you.
Childermass ·
Correct.
Childermass ·
I think you are over-modest. You are exactly who will make the pencil the key to this new technology. You, and me, your talent-free aspirant.
We all have learnt to write and, by and large, the pencil is the default tool.
The reason 'styluses' have never worked is that are dysfunctional. Or, better, non-functional. The lag, the pixel size. Or in layman's terms, the confusion and the clumsiness, have made them peripheral in a literal sense. This pencil, with the supporting screen resolution and processing power focussed appropriately has changed all that.
We have yearned for the real electronic note-pad, and at last we have one.
I can recognise my own signature. I can recignise my handwriting. The drawings look like my drawings.
Childermass ·
Patience, padewan. There once was a time when no apps, there were.
Childermass ·
Thank YOU.
Childermass ·
Yes. It is the pencil. Thanks, Walt.
Matthu ·
The wait now is 4-5 weeks!
Sporting my "Told you so" face ·
Yeah I know. I'm glad that I got my order in when preorders opened up.
Apple should have made more pencils than they had iPad pros.
Dominic Sotirescu ·
iPad Pro is a wonderful piece of technology. Unfortunately in business you need more than a news app and a graphics app. You need to run XCode, you need to setup a server, you need Brackets, you need to run Java apps and you need to run heavy duty apps like Final Cut Pro. The effort to port these apps to the iOS ecosystem is gigantic and will probably never happen. Why wait when these apps could easily run on OS X, today, on an iPad Pro running OS X, a no brainer. OS X already supports a lot of the touch gestures, anyway and the Pencil allows you to control UI intensive apps like Final Cut Pro.
To me, such an iPad Pro would be the perfect computing platform! With external monitor support, of course.
Another dream computing platform would be the iPhone X that plugs into a 4K monitor and runs OS X, when you get home!
Neal Cammy ·
When people wrote all day on paper, desks were inclined. I went to an older high school in NY in the mid 70's that still had the inclined desks with an inkwell (and flat portion for your pencils). When businesses started putting machines (adding machines, typewriters, etc) on desks, they became flat to support the machines. Drafters always had inclined drafting tables, until their pen/pencil and vellum got thrown out for AutoCAD. CRT computer monitors were too large to install under a desk, and you would have had to redesign and repurchase furniture to use it under a desk. Businesses had high enough expenses to buy the computers in the early 80's and 90's, without having to buy ALL new furniture just to support computers. It wasn't until cheaper LCD flat panels has it become practical to go back to the inclined desk.
I foresee a day when you can buy desks that have an adjustable, inclined section of the large iPad Pro size tablet, just as you now see desks with drop downs for keyboards.
Marco ·
Thank you for your very valid points Neal.
Horace Dediu ·
I am traveling (for 2 weeks now) with my MacBook and iPad Pro. Combined they are a tidy package that is smaller and lighter than my old 17” MacBook Pro. I consider the sum of the two parts a better choice than either one alternative alone.
demodave ·
Checked one out at the local Store yesterday. It's big, no doubt. The bezel seemed really big to me. It's nice, but I'd (much) sooner put money into my next laptop. Which is overdue. I think it will still do OK.
Shameer Mulji ·
" ;99% of the existing iOS software is not at all attuned to the opportunities he sees. "
Those opportunities being?
forgotten ·
You don't have to go back many years to find people posting exactly what you just did, but for OS X vs Windows. Let's not forget too quickly.
art hackett ·
You obviously haven't been paying attention. The ads have already explained that serious work (w**king) is done on windows. Easy is for pussies.
Well done on getting your work done on the pad though. I've never been able to transition so far, even though I spend far more time on my pad. Don't you find gestures, etc on the trackpads gives you an almost touch effect anyway? I've never felt the amazing amount of control (apart from precision drawing) with Apple trackpads made me long for iOS touch input particularly.
The pencil on the pro though is incredible. Hope no one has shares in Wacom. Too bad you can't pencil on the new iPhones with their 3d touch and A9's as they would make incredible Duet enabled input to Macs, even though 3d might conflict with pressure sensitivity.
art hackett ·
Especially when battery "life" on the 17" was so appalling with all the background processes like mds, etc insisting on running while not being charged. Mind you, I've only ever owned the 17's apart from a 12" Wallstreet. I can't understand the obsession with mice either if a trackpad is available. What desktop size do you find is acceptable or most useful on the MacBook?
art hackett ·
You really should try to learn to use the trackpads, but being a rusted on mouser, it could take up to a month to attain suitable muscle memory. I thinks it's important to enable virtually every feature available with the trackpad, especially tap to click, but the double tap and hold to drag has moved into the accessibility prefs unfortunately.
It will be quite awkward for at least a week as one tends to tap too firmly for awhile but taking it slowly helps.
I'm only referring to Apple trackpads of course, as Windows ones are almost 100% infuriating and a mouse is the only sane choice.
art hackett ·
Try Duet with your ipad. It's pretty amazing, apparently built by ex Apple engineers.
art hackett ·
Nooooooooooooo........
Space Gorilla ·
Re: trackpads, I find them very awkward compared to directly touching the screen. The trackpad/pointer feels disconnected. Partly I would guess it is what you're used to, but I prefer direct touch.
BillC ·
You can just buy an iPad stand that can incline today and use it with standard desks.
BillC ·
Having used the device for a few days, reading on the Pro feels like reading a physical newpaper or those large coffee table photo books--huge but also very immersive. Reading using the news app, I feel like I'm drawn into the stories more so than an iPad Air or Mini.
pkop4 ·
Because now we use computers? Duh
When you use your laptop, do you open the screen flat, or do you have it more vertical? If you don't lay it flat, why not?
jfutral ·
Yet most keyboards, even today are inclined. And you can still buy stands for laptops to make them inclined. Do you think this is about "looking down"?
Joe
jfutral ·
Valid points and nothing to do with looking down.
Joe
marcoselmalo ·
Is Berult becoming more lucid or are we becoming more adept at reading his poetry?
Shameer Mulji ·
Not all businesses need Xcode, FCP, run Java apps, etc. Many professionals such as doctors, lawyers, architects, musicians, artists, teachers, etc.. don't use the tools that you mentioned. Yet they're all professionals that can, and do, benefit from the iPad
I do hope this exercise assuages more than it mires. berult.
marcoselmalo ·
I've always enjoyed your comments here and never thought they were nonsense. Rather, your words are clever and insightful and playful.
marcoselmalo ·
In my experience, flat surfaces are great for piling things.
Space Gorilla ·
So true. Every flat surface in our house is a storage area :)
Bill Maslen ·
I take your point about Apple's stated intentions – on the other hand, they don't always stick to their own (strongly expressed) plans. I agree with you that the convergence will end, ultimately, in a UI shift of the kind you describe (ironically already sort of possible in Windows 10, although that's still too chaotic to be deemed successful). I think iOS still has a lot of evolving to do!
realroz ·
Actually, it does have a lot to do with looking down. With a PC display, in terms of ergo-dynamics, you'd typically want the display to be mounted just below eye level so that the user does not need to angle his or her head and neck look down but can look straight ahead and see the display. Same for books or newspapers, people typically hold them up to read them, its more comfortable for an extended period of time that way.
A tablet is a display that is also a work surface at times. For a work surface, more level has benefits because it makes the tablet more stable for tapping or writing and does not require the user to raise his or her hands as high to tap upper regions of the screen. But even with a work surface, a slight angle is more comfortable than fully level. It makes the top of the surface closer to the user, more equidistant to the user's eyes. Also, glare is reduced if the tablet is angled towards the user. iPad cases or smart covers typically have supported a near vertical mode for watching video and a slightly angled mode for actively working on the tablet.
Not clear to me what is ideal for the iPad pro. Perhaps a slight angle if you are using with a pencil and more vertical if you are using or keyboard or just watching something. The challenge is that throughout the day most people read and type rather than draft and draw, so one would constantly want to reposition the screen more vertically and that gradually discourages using the pencil. Unless this device is dedicated to use as a illustration tool, it will likely end up being used like a laptop much of the time - and then you have to ask, what is the point? Why not just use a laptop? Time and usage will tell.
realroz ·
Do you use them both at the same time? If the Macbook had touch or the functionality to convert like a Surface Book, would you really need both devices?
jfutral ·
Yet no one thinks twice about that when writing or doodling on a piece of paper or note pad. I wonder why?
Joe
realroz ·
With paper it's easy to lean over the desk and focus on the area of the page that is closest to you and move the page around to suit that focus. There is also no issue with glare.
100 comments
San Cabraal ·
Marvellous work. So is this how apple will kill the mac OS?
Accent_Sweden ·
So you are saying its JTBD is not as a giant iPhone? Now that should confuse some folks. :) Great analysis and great presentation.
Luis Alejandro Masanti ·
Horace, you surpass yourself! (I think it has something to do with your AirShow.)
Just the ‘concept’ is right (as usual in you) but the presentation make it really enjoyable to see. And thanks for the last note: “No device…” I suffered during the presentation with the glass-crashing noises…
Bill Esbenshade ·
Horace - what's it like to hold iPad Pro and read with it that way? This is my only concern re purchase.
Sacto_Joe ·
This should go viral, stat. It's that good. Talk it up, folks.
Marcosardi ·
There is one use case the iPad Pro doesn't cover: a lot of us are using a laptop as a portable desktop and are plunging it to a screen/keyboard/mouse when in the office. I get the keyboard and mouse part, but what about the external larger screen? Will the gorgeous screen of the iPad Pro make for it?
dr.no ·
Airplay mirroring or HDMI Lightning adpator then you can go buy 120" 4K TV and go brag to the neighbors.
neutrino23 ·
I just had a chance to try one with a keyboard and pencil tonight. The keyboard is serviceable but the pencil takes your breath away. With it I can print text almost as finely as I would with a 0.4mm lead pencil. Drawing or annotating with any other iPad is like writing with a marker on a white board. The new Pencil is exquisitely precise.
I'm not an artist, for me this is great because I need to annotate pictures of samples or take notes while acquiring data in the lab.
I heard that the high end configurations sold out first. This is what I'll get, 128GB with LTE radio. The Pencil is back ordered several weeks.
hannahjs ·
I don't know which I like better, your sense of humour, your daring, or your intellect. Perhaps, like the daiquiri, it's all in the blend.
Adams Immersive ·
I'm pretty sure that for me, the lack of a physical keyboard (size, weight, awkward screen angle) is a key iPad benefit!
demodave ·
Fun! Very enjoyable to watch. I would still miss my mouse too much to give up the "laptop", but I might still yet be trainable!
altuzar ·
I think that the iPad Pro is just a big iPad, but love the video (and the rest of the site, your graphs are THE F****ING BEST).
Bdub ·
Excellent video, bravo.
Peter Payne ·
Great video. I love my iPad air so much when traveling, I am just not on board with the Pro, unfortunately. I wish Apple had added value by giving the pencil for free with the purchase, that would have changed the value proposition so much.
DalekVoid ·
What is the app he was using to demo the iPad pro?
Norton Chia ·
Almost perfect.
jhallsmith ·
Perspective
Marco ·
After less than 1 hour working on an iPad Pro laid flat on a desk your neck will hurt so much that you would need a neck massage ;-) Also, from your video you can easily see that by using it like that it continues to swing horizontally on the surface of the desk, so at least you would need to attach 4 antislip pads or antislip tape on the back cover...
Bill Maslen ·
Hm. I think the iPad Pro is the clearest indication yet that the stylistic convergence of MacOS and iOS is all about Apple migrating to dual OSes on a single platform. I think "Pro" indicates that future iterations will support iOS in tablet mode and MacOS in desktop mode – Apple will undoubtedly come up with a more practical keyboard in the not-too-distant future, because the Smart Keyboard is about as far from Jony Ive's style as you could possibly get. I have absolutely no doubt that behind the scenes in Applesville there are already iPad Pros running both MacOS and iOS, interchangeably. And that's why Tim Cook can afford to be so dismissive of Microsoft's latest Surface and other devices: while Windows continues to be a confusing kludge, the next generation of iPad Pros will draw a clear distinction between one mode and the other. Horace's video clearly shows that such a distinction needs to be drawn: as it stands, the iPad Pro is slightly awkward. But imagine a dual-OS version: it's the old "ugly duckling to swan" transformation.
So next year, or maybe the year after, I guarantee we'll be seeing an iPad Pro with an optional Force Touch keyboard, capable of switching from MacOS to iOS and back again as the user prefers (hence also the vastly improved "disk" controller). I suspect the storage will be ramped up (256+ GB) and the meaning of the "Pro" moniker will become crystal clear. Now that would be mind-bogglingly cool. And much more practical.
JohnDoey ·
Most people don’t have any use for the pencil. It is the very definition of an accessory. If you actually have a use for the pencil, then you know that it is cheaper and higher-quality than competing solutions.
OGenius ·
Horace, we loved the video! We tried to translate it in French so that others can enjoy it too. A simple question: Did you really buy an iPad Pro?! http://macaficionados.com/2015/11/12/ipad-pro-une-nouvelle-categorie-dordinateurs-de-bureau-63769/
guarantee ·
I guarantee we won't see that.
Space Gorilla ·
You just need to angle it up (who remembers drafting tables). I've been using an iPad 2 in a ZAGGFolio keyboard case like this since 2011, it has replaced my MacBook Pro. The combination of touching the screen and using the hardware keyboard is very comfortable. I find it much better than my mouse/keyboard combo on my iMac.
Marco ·
With a keyboard case it's a totally different story! I was referring to the video, in which the keyboard cover is literally thrown away and the iPad Pro is just laid flat and controlled with touch/fingers only.
kyron ·
nope, not gonna happen. two completely different OSes on one device is far too much complication. an ugly kludge. instead, Apple will continue to improve iOS. the pro is capable of running desktop class software. it needs some refinement (better keyboard support) but that will come. also remember, iOS supports external monitors as seen in auto head units.
kyron ·
for dramatic effect. no office worker is going to actually work that way.
kyron ·
and an iPad is just a big iPhone, right?
same way a swimming pool is just a big bathtub...
kyron ·
iOS supports external displays, even with touch support. auto head units operate in this fashion (Pioneer AppRadio, etc). it's not hard to imagine this evolving.
kyron ·
not until people no longer need trucks and selling them trucks is no longer profitable.
Space Gorilla ·
What kyron said, it was for dramatic effect, nothing more. Although there are times when I do use my iPad 2 laid flat when collaborating with someone else, but that isn't the normal way I use it.
I think the point does need to be made about how comfortable it is to use a touchscreen with a hardware keyboard case. I see many comments about how using a touchscreen all day will be tiring on your hand or arm. I can say from years of experience that is not the case, I find it more comfortable than the keyboard/mouse on my iMac, and far more comfortable than my MacBook trackpad.
Marco ·
Well, I was not prepared for dramatic effect in a technical review.
berult ·
After one hour's pain-in-the-butt, mind-bending work, your neck muscles sweet-talk you into shifting your neural weight to lower-body cartilages for a change. It's somewhat peculiarly spelt 'get-the-f***-up-and-take-a-walk-or-something'. Toe be, or not toe be, ...kinda..."give it a Shakespearian rest, will ya...?"
Neck-of-the-woods' tap-on-the-wrist for some walk-in-the-park work-in-progress. Sorta.
One can reminisce with tear-jerking nostalgia upon those rows of monks bent, for hours on end, over precious manuscripts in some remote monastery. This meticulous brotherhood of shriveled annotators, scribes, and parch-mentors, died out as a species from atavistic neck distentions. This is a well-known/poorly-known/how-the-hell-would-I-know, albeit a deeply saddening part of one's neighborhood library's institutional history.
So, one should not even bend over backward to exercise on the hour. The sheer survival of one's own scribbling species demands that it lifts its sorry a** off its intellectual mooring. On the dot, it rings the 'ankle' metaphor, ...what far too many of us mortal conveniently mishear as the 'anchor' call-of-duty. berult.
godofbiscuits ·
Two different UXs, but the iOS underpinnings are a version of OS X minus the posix stuff and retooled to work as an "embedded" version (no virtual memory, using app files themselves as backing stores to a greater extent, etc).
And then there's watchOS and tvOS, both of which descent from iOS.
The lion's share of developer frameworks available in iOS are also available in tvOS.
And OS X and iOS share even more frameworks. Apple's been moving more and more towards making them identical on both platforms (e,g,, Metal, Core Image)
It's better to say that it's unlikely in the nearer term that Apple plans to merge UIKit (iOS user experience framework) with OS X's AppKit.
battiato1981 ·
As an artist who makes drawing the bedrock of all I do, I sighed a deep sigh every time Steve Jobs dissed the use of a stylus, even though I knew that his POV was as general user. It was obvious that Apple could do a kick-ass drawing tool if they decided to. With such a strong internal design culture, I'm kind of surprised that it took so long. Now the only (small) issue is that the pencil won't arrive until 3 weeks after the iPad. As suggested in your review, I expect to use this while sitting at my desks, as a drawing pad, and that it will to some extent supplant my paper pads and my Wacom tablet. A slightly inclined (drafting style) desktop will go nicely with this. I think the niche market for people like me is large, but not large enough to make the pencil standard with it. That said, if it wasn't for my specialized work, I would have no interest in a tablet this size.
Mordechai ·
It's really too big to be comfortable anywhere other than on a table. I'm looking forward to trying it out with the pencil - us mere mortals have to wait 2 weeks to get the pencil unlike you Horace. In the meantime, it makes a great TV to watch while having breakfast. Just finished watching episodes 8 and 9 of Dr. Who.
Walt French ·
Likewise, many will have use for the iPadPro only as an accessory to the Pencil. Horace is looking more to the future here; 99% of the existing iOS software is not at all attuned to the opportunities he sees. Illustrators, graphic artists & the like will be immediately (well, in 3 weeks when the Pencil starts shipping in volume) thrilled.
gerrymcgarry ·
The iPad Pro would need a pretty big blender.
gerrymcgarry ·
For the times they are a-changin'
Sporting my "Told you so" face ·
I hate having to wait for two weeks to get the pencil. Like what happened there?
Andrew ·
iOS has the posix stuff (except for the command shell and command line programs).
Shameer Mulji ·
Apple has pretty adamant about not merging iOS / OSX but I can see them adding a "desktop" features to iOS that may allow iOS apps to adapt between UI paradigms.
For example, when you attach the Smart Keyboard on an iPad Pro, the app(s) displays the UI optimized for KB / trackpad. When you detach the Smart Keyboard, the app displays the UI optimized for Touch
jfutral ·
Because before the computer everyone did their work on an easel?
Joe
jfutral ·
Yeah, I remember drafting tables. It wasn't about not looking down, it was about being able to comfortably drawing at 24"x36" (or larger), reaching the whole layout easily. Difficult to impossible (depending on drawing size) flat.
Joe
Space Gorilla ·
Yes, flat is terrible as a working surface. But angle everything up a bit and it is very comfortable, and more practical. I was in newspaper production when it was still cut and paste, we used drafting tables and light tables for hours on end. I've always wanted an iMac that was all touchscreen that I could angle down. I suppose the iPad Pro is a step in that direction.
Space Gorilla ·
I think the tossing of devices off screen with the fake glass breaking sound effect was a clue :)
Marco ·
You cannot compare this to pre-computer era. So if you are correct, why the screens of the first computers were not horizontal?...
jfutral ·
Right, but not because of neck strain, but because of arm reach.
Joe
Marco ·
OK, I guess time we'll tell. I still believe - in case it was not clear - that you cannot really work on an iPad Pro like you'd work on a PC with a real keyboard (let's say on a laptop). I mean any kind of 'serious' work requiring you to spend the whole day at the PC, whether it's writing, coding, editing, creating and so on. No tablet, no matter what size it is, could ever replace a real PC/laptop.
jfutral ·
Why not? It is a longer history than computer history.
Actually, many screens were horizontal, placed under glass. It just wasn't an efficient use of desk space.
People still look down to get work done. This is not anything new.
Joe
Space Gorilla ·
I've found it's a bit of both, that extra bit of strain when you're working on a flat surface really gets to your neck and shoulders. But I imagine it depends on exactly what you're doing, positioning and such. On a drafting table I could use my elbows as swivels much better, which was better for reach, certainly.
Space Gorilla ·
Well, I've been doing this since 2011, doing real work on my iPad 2 in a keyboard case. It replaced my MacBook Pro. What is serious work anyway? It's different for every person. Sure there are some apps that are better suited to a traditional PC set up, but some apps are actually better on a touchscreen. Apps and workflows will evolve. One thing I can say for sure, I prefer the touchscreen/hardware keyboard, it feels smoother, more connected, easier.
Marco ·
You should review your history book, I'm afraid. Even amanuensis monks did not work on a horizontal surface.
Marco ·
Well, kudos to your skeleton then. If I worked like that for even one hour my neck and shoulders would start to hurt. According to ergonomics, that's not how you should stay in front of a screen.
Space Gorilla ·
You're making incorrect assumptions about my position when I'm working on my iPad. It sits on a desk, with the screen angled up. It's a lot like a laptop sitting on a desk, except I type on the hardware keyboard and instead of a mouse or trackpad I touch the screen to interact as needed. It is incredibly comfortable. But I can also sit on the couch or in a chair and work in the same fashion, also very comfortable. I'm not special in any way when it comes to my skeleton, I can assure you.
Marco ·
I am not making assumptions, sorry if I gave this impression. If you read my first comment, I was contesting the idea to work on an iPad Pro laid flat horizontally on the desk! And in fact I even replied to you on the same topic yesterday. This was my reply: "With a keyboard case it's a totally different story! I was referring to the video, in which the keyboard cover is literally thrown away and the iPad Pro is just laid flat and controlled with touch/fingers only."
jfutral ·
So why aren't desks built with a natural incline?
Joe
Marco ·
They were! Not until long ago (historically speaking of course, let's say until WWII or slighly later), work desks were inclined. Even school desks were:
jfutral ·
Yet, not anymore. Why is that? Joe
Space Gorilla ·
I agree, working flat would be a nightmare, for long periods. But I did previously explain that isn't how I work. You can do serious work on an iPad, no problem. I do sometimes detach the keyboard and lay both flat, in meetings. It's handy how you can separate the keyboard and screen and still type easily. But I wouldn't work flat for very long. You can also prop up the screen and sit back in your chair with the keyboard on your lap, if you're just writing and don't need to touch the screen much. One of the things I really enjoy is how flexible the iPad is with the keyboard case.
Marco ·
Because on certain things we are evolving, on others we are regressing. During the Boom years many things were changed in the name of modernity, not always with good results. This is particularly true in furniture design and architecture. Staying at a desk and watching all day long a totally horizontal surface, with your neck and head reclined, damages your neck/spine and is not an ergonimic posture. That is a medical fact.
Marco ·
I totally agree on that, all my comments were related to how working on an iPad Pro was presented in the above video.
Michael Diedrichs ·
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GVJpOmaDyU
Childermass ·
The nub of your ping-pong game with Space Gorilla is this word 'serious'. You are making assumptions about work. Almost no-one (on an actuarial basis) does 'serious' work on a computer. The number of coders and gamers and spread-sheet maves, who dominate these boards and others like them, are but a mote. Apple has always had the beam in mind. The 'rest-of-us' IS the market, and this iPad and others before them make more sense and are easier to use BECAUSE they are simpler, more intuitive and more fun. Hey, we may get neck-ache. So? No-one is going to make any money, from this day on, making machines for tech-nerds. Count the dollars.
You say you remarks were based on Horace's presentation. I'm not a buyer of that get-out. The new world does not give a rats-ass for conventional IT/HR/health-and-safety considerations.
As a completely un-needed extra: use a pillow. You sit on your sofa and get a bedroom pillow. Punch it around a little and lo! your iPad sits at exactly the right angle. Write books, design web-sites, read, listen; and all in your pyjamas.
Childermass ·
Bulls-eye. Thank you.
Childermass ·
Correct.
Childermass ·
I think you are over-modest. You are exactly who will make the pencil the key to this new technology. You, and me, your talent-free aspirant.
We all have learnt to write and, by and large, the pencil is the default tool.
The reason 'styluses' have never worked is that are dysfunctional. Or, better, non-functional. The lag, the pixel size. Or in layman's terms, the confusion and the clumsiness, have made them peripheral in a literal sense. This pencil, with the supporting screen resolution and processing power focussed appropriately has changed all that.
We have yearned for the real electronic note-pad, and at last we have one.
I can recognise my own signature. I can recignise my handwriting. The drawings look like my drawings.
Childermass ·
Patience, padewan. There once was a time when no apps, there were.
Childermass ·
Thank YOU.
Childermass ·
Yes. It is the pencil. Thanks, Walt.
Matthu ·
The wait now is 4-5 weeks!
Sporting my "Told you so" face ·
Yeah I know. I'm glad that I got my order in when preorders opened up.
Apple should have made more pencils than they had iPad pros.
Dominic Sotirescu ·
iPad Pro is a wonderful piece of technology. Unfortunately in business you need more than a news app and a graphics app. You need to run XCode, you need to setup a server, you need Brackets, you need to run Java apps and you need to run heavy duty apps like Final Cut Pro. The effort to port these apps to the iOS ecosystem is gigantic and will probably never happen. Why wait when these apps could easily run on OS X, today, on an iPad Pro running OS X, a no brainer. OS X already supports a lot of the touch gestures, anyway and the Pencil allows you to control UI intensive apps like Final Cut Pro. To me, such an iPad Pro would be the perfect computing platform! With external monitor support, of course. Another dream computing platform would be the iPhone X that plugs into a 4K monitor and runs OS X, when you get home!
Neal Cammy ·
When people wrote all day on paper, desks were inclined. I went to an older high school in NY in the mid 70's that still had the inclined desks with an inkwell (and flat portion for your pencils). When businesses started putting machines (adding machines, typewriters, etc) on desks, they became flat to support the machines. Drafters always had inclined drafting tables, until their pen/pencil and vellum got thrown out for AutoCAD. CRT computer monitors were too large to install under a desk, and you would have had to redesign and repurchase furniture to use it under a desk. Businesses had high enough expenses to buy the computers in the early 80's and 90's, without having to buy ALL new furniture just to support computers. It wasn't until cheaper LCD flat panels has it become practical to go back to the inclined desk.
I foresee a day when you can buy desks that have an adjustable, inclined section of the large iPad Pro size tablet, just as you now see desks with drop downs for keyboards.
Marco ·
Thank you for your very valid points Neal.
Horace Dediu ·
I am traveling (for 2 weeks now) with my MacBook and iPad Pro. Combined they are a tidy package that is smaller and lighter than my old 17” MacBook Pro. I consider the sum of the two parts a better choice than either one alternative alone.
demodave ·
Checked one out at the local Store yesterday. It's big, no doubt. The bezel seemed really big to me. It's nice, but I'd (much) sooner put money into my next laptop. Which is overdue. I think it will still do OK.
Shameer Mulji ·
" ;99% of the existing iOS software is not at all attuned to the opportunities he sees. "
Those opportunities being?
forgotten ·
You don't have to go back many years to find people posting exactly what you just did, but for OS X vs Windows. Let's not forget too quickly.
art hackett ·
You obviously haven't been paying attention. The ads have already explained that serious work (w**king) is done on windows. Easy is for pussies. Well done on getting your work done on the pad though. I've never been able to transition so far, even though I spend far more time on my pad. Don't you find gestures, etc on the trackpads gives you an almost touch effect anyway? I've never felt the amazing amount of control (apart from precision drawing) with Apple trackpads made me long for iOS touch input particularly. The pencil on the pro though is incredible. Hope no one has shares in Wacom. Too bad you can't pencil on the new iPhones with their 3d touch and A9's as they would make incredible Duet enabled input to Macs, even though 3d might conflict with pressure sensitivity.
art hackett ·
Especially when battery "life" on the 17" was so appalling with all the background processes like mds, etc insisting on running while not being charged. Mind you, I've only ever owned the 17's apart from a 12" Wallstreet. I can't understand the obsession with mice either if a trackpad is available. What desktop size do you find is acceptable or most useful on the MacBook?
art hackett ·
You really should try to learn to use the trackpads, but being a rusted on mouser, it could take up to a month to attain suitable muscle memory. I thinks it's important to enable virtually every feature available with the trackpad, especially tap to click, but the double tap and hold to drag has moved into the accessibility prefs unfortunately. It will be quite awkward for at least a week as one tends to tap too firmly for awhile but taking it slowly helps. I'm only referring to Apple trackpads of course, as Windows ones are almost 100% infuriating and a mouse is the only sane choice.
art hackett ·
Try Duet with your ipad. It's pretty amazing, apparently built by ex Apple engineers.
art hackett ·
Nooooooooooooo........
Space Gorilla ·
Re: trackpads, I find them very awkward compared to directly touching the screen. The trackpad/pointer feels disconnected. Partly I would guess it is what you're used to, but I prefer direct touch.
BillC ·
You can just buy an iPad stand that can incline today and use it with standard desks.
BillC ·
Having used the device for a few days, reading on the Pro feels like reading a physical newpaper or those large coffee table photo books--huge but also very immersive. Reading using the news app, I feel like I'm drawn into the stories more so than an iPad Air or Mini.
pkop4 ·
Because now we use computers? Duh
When you use your laptop, do you open the screen flat, or do you have it more vertical? If you don't lay it flat, why not?
jfutral ·
Yet most keyboards, even today are inclined. And you can still buy stands for laptops to make them inclined. Do you think this is about "looking down"?
Joe
jfutral ·
Valid points and nothing to do with looking down.
Joe
marcoselmalo ·
Is Berult becoming more lucid or are we becoming more adept at reading his poetry?
Shameer Mulji ·
Not all businesses need Xcode, FCP, run Java apps, etc. Many professionals such as doctors, lawyers, architects, musicians, artists, teachers, etc.. don't use the tools that you mentioned. Yet they're all professionals that can, and do, benefit from the iPad
berult ·
Trance lucency :: Poetry : Poetry :: Mathematics : Mathematics :: Translucency : Translucency :: Lucidity;
Trance lucency ~~ Poetry ~~ Mathematics ~~ translucency ~~ Lucidity;
Uncertainty :: Determinism : Determinism :: Authorship : Authorship :: Readership : Readership :: berult. : berult. :: berult.;
Uncertainty ~~ Determinism ~~ Readership ~~ Authorship ~~ berult. ~~ berult....
I do hope this exercise assuages more than it mires. berult.
marcoselmalo ·
I've always enjoyed your comments here and never thought they were nonsense. Rather, your words are clever and insightful and playful.
marcoselmalo ·
In my experience, flat surfaces are great for piling things.
Space Gorilla ·
So true. Every flat surface in our house is a storage area :)
Bill Maslen ·
I take your point about Apple's stated intentions – on the other hand, they don't always stick to their own (strongly expressed) plans. I agree with you that the convergence will end, ultimately, in a UI shift of the kind you describe (ironically already sort of possible in Windows 10, although that's still too chaotic to be deemed successful). I think iOS still has a lot of evolving to do!
realroz ·
Actually, it does have a lot to do with looking down. With a PC display, in terms of ergo-dynamics, you'd typically want the display to be mounted just below eye level so that the user does not need to angle his or her head and neck look down but can look straight ahead and see the display. Same for books or newspapers, people typically hold them up to read them, its more comfortable for an extended period of time that way.
A tablet is a display that is also a work surface at times. For a work surface, more level has benefits because it makes the tablet more stable for tapping or writing and does not require the user to raise his or her hands as high to tap upper regions of the screen. But even with a work surface, a slight angle is more comfortable than fully level. It makes the top of the surface closer to the user, more equidistant to the user's eyes. Also, glare is reduced if the tablet is angled towards the user. iPad cases or smart covers typically have supported a near vertical mode for watching video and a slightly angled mode for actively working on the tablet.
Not clear to me what is ideal for the iPad pro. Perhaps a slight angle if you are using with a pencil and more vertical if you are using or keyboard or just watching something. The challenge is that throughout the day most people read and type rather than draft and draw, so one would constantly want to reposition the screen more vertically and that gradually discourages using the pencil. Unless this device is dedicated to use as a illustration tool, it will likely end up being used like a laptop much of the time - and then you have to ask, what is the point? Why not just use a laptop? Time and usage will tell.
realroz ·
Do you use them both at the same time? If the Macbook had touch or the functionality to convert like a Surface Book, would you really need both devices?
jfutral ·
Yet no one thinks twice about that when writing or doodling on a piece of paper or note pad. I wonder why?
Joe
realroz ·
With paper it's easy to lean over the desk and focus on the area of the page that is closest to you and move the page around to suit that focus. There is also no issue with glare.